Ask the Developer Vol. 15, Mario & Luigi: Brothership – Chapter 4
05/12/2024
This interview was conducted before the game was released.
Some of the images and videos shown in text were created during development.
This article has been translated from the original Japanese content.
Chapter 4: Keeping "drama" front of mind
We discussed the bond between Mario and Luigi earlier, but because this is an RPG, it's important to consider how to show that bond and express it through the story.
Otani:
Ohashi-san excels at writing compelling storylines, so there were a lot of dramatic scenes overall. I noticed a particular emphasis on the brotherly bond between Mario and Luigi.
Ohashi:
Now that it was in 3D, we could create a more cinematic look. We put a lot of effort into directing the story, trying to add more expressiveness through the acting and the camera.
Fukushima:
My personal favourite cutscene is when the brothers are blasted out of a cannon onto an island. Normally, this is the kind of scene where the same movement is used repeatedly, but although their landing is clumsy at first, it gradually becomes more graceful.
I was impressed with the attention to detail that went into creating the animation.
Ohashi:
When I handed over a rough storyboard I'd written to the person in charge of animation, he created countless variations saying, "It'd get boring if all the movements were the same". In the first scene, when Luigi lands on Rumbla Island, it leaves a mark on the ground where he botches his landing. I think it's great to incorporate playful moments like these that make people chuckle when they notice them. For example, the exclamation mark in Luigi Logic is in the shape of an "L".
These kinds of things are what make a game "Mario & Luigi-like”. Towards the latter half of development, everyone had developed a deeper understanding of what it meant to be “Mario & Luigi-like". Ah, but there's one thing I should point out… When Luigi crash lands on Rumbla Island, he actually plunges head-first into the ground.
But the mark on the ground makes it look like Luigi landed flat with his entire body... No one picked up on it. Now, if you could just turn a blind eye to it, I'd be much obliged! (Laughs)
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Speaking of the directing, the scene where Mario's antagonists – Zokket, Bowser, and their armies – battle each other in the skies was dynamic and memorable.
Otani:
In both the plot and the scenario, that scene was supposed to be just a small skirmish with both sides firing shots at each other, right? I didn't expect anyone to get shot down, so when I saw the storyboard and how they were blasting each other out of the skies in spectacular fashion, I was in shock. (Laughs)
Ohashi:
I wanted to make it impactful. I personally kept "drama" front of mind as a watchword throughout the game. That scene is the first time Bowser's Minions make a proper appearance in the game, and the first time players understand that they exist in the same world and are fighting against Zokket's troopers. So I wanted to make a strong impression. But just as I was thinking it would be quite challenging, the person in charge of that scene created a storyboard that really captured the feeling of tension and intensity, and I was blown away.
Furuta:
I thought to myself, "This is a movie!".
Ohashi:
Since we'd put so much effort into directing it, we felt that the sound needed to be good too.
Otani:
This time, since we had Acquire on board for the development, the game had dramatically changed with the transition to 3D, so we decided to take on new challenges with the music as well. We asked Sakamoto-san (9) from Noisycroak – with whom Ohashi-san has worked for a long time – to handle it.
(9) Hideki Sakamoto. Sound producer and sound creator, CEO of Noisycroak Co., Ltd. He has worked on the music for games such as Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Ohashi:
That's right. But once again we ran into challenges with, you know...making it "Mario & Luigi-like". (Laughs)
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Otani:
A lot of the background music in the series so far has used piano tunes, but we wanted something new this time, so we asked him to use wind instruments and add more emotion, and left the rest to him…
Ohashi:
We really struggled to create the music. We'd have meetings with Sakamoto-san once a week, where we'd both be like, "What does "Mario & Luigi-like" even mean?". (Laughs) In the end, we picked out instruments that sounded like Mario & Luigi and reduced the number of them to hone in on that "Mario & Luigi-like" feeling. Things like tropical steelpans, upbeat brass bands, accordions...
Otani:
Once we narrowed down the selection of instruments, it started to match the series' atmosphere. Although "Mario & Luigi-like" has no clear definition, one key point I kept in mind was whether it matched Mario and Luigi's in-game movements. But the final product ended up being filled with a lot of great music.
What also impressed me was that in addition to the songs that crop up in several places, there are also lots of songs that were created for specific scenes. Normally, we create music to be used multiple times – one song for battles, one for boss fights, another for events... But he created a completely different piece of music for each cutscene.
Ohashi:
For this game, the music was only added after the scene was created. Sakamoto-san composed the music for each scene after checking how it flowed from the previous to the next. The music for climactic scenes was also created while discussing together.
Otani:
A synergy develops as the story unfolds. There are over 100 pieces of music, and every single one is good. I need the soundtrack. (Laughs)
Ohashi:
Generic songs wouldn't have been able to fully articulate the cutscenes. Because personally, I thought the scenes were really well done. Then I thought it would be even better if we embellished each cutscene with incidental music (10) for dramatic impact. So we ended up adding another 40 tracks to the original 60. (Laughs)
(10) Music used for effect in TV shows, movies, anime, plays and other productions.
Okay, but what about the schedule?
Everyone:
(Laughs)
Fukushima:
We did have to work within a tight schedule, but I think the more effort we put in, the more immersed we became. In the end, we recorded a live performance, which made the music even more enjoyable to listen to.
Otani:
The reason why this game ended up feeling genuinely "Mario & Luigi-like" is down to Acquire's hard work and extensive research into the series. We wanted to strengthen that further, so we invited people who'd worked on the Mario & Luigi series at AlphaDream – the director, the developer in charge of the game world and the battle director – to join us in the development of this title. We also asked Maekawa-san (11), formerly of AlphaDream, who was deeply involved in the series, to supervise the project. I think that also contributed to enhancing this game's "Mario & Luigi-like" feeling.
(11) Yoshihiko Maekawa. The former president of ALPHADREAM CORPORATION. He served as the director of the first game in the series, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and as the game's producer from the second game, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, up to the seventh game, Mario & Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story + Bowser Jr.’s Journey.
Ohashi:
It was a true learning experience. After all, we wouldn't want people who've played previous games in the series to find this one jarring.
While the story is important in an RPG, it's also a challenge to balance the gameplay, right?
Ohashi:
In the final stages of development, Fukushima-san was constantly working with the team that developed the battle system.
Fukushima:
In previous games in the series, battles used a system of "badges". Once the gauge started to fill up, it could be used during battle, but you wouldn't be able to use it for a while again once it was empty. So I think some players restricted its use to decisive moments, such as in boss battles.
However, we thought it would be nice to have something that players could be more carefree about using, so we worked with Acquire to put together something called the Battle Plug system, taking into account the game's theme. In this system, you equip Battle Plugs instead of badges. The effects of most Battle Plugs are easily noticeable when you perform regular actions, as simply equipping them will change those actions slightly or add extra effects.
Otani:
However, since you can create different combinations of Battle Plugs, it was difficult to balance them.
Fukushima:
You can say that again! (Laughs) There are over 40 Battle Plugs in total, so purely in terms of what you can equip, the combinations are countless. You can combine them however you like, but rather than being a gameplay mechanic that requires tricky calculations and complicated strategies, we designed it so that players can freely equip whichever plugs they want and feel the difference. This makes it easier even for younger players who are new to video games.
Ohashi:
It's fun to discover not just the individual plugs' effects, but also the synergies you can get from combining them.
Fukushima:
I think everyone has their own style, like going for a set of offensive plugs that can deal a lot of damage in one go, or a set of defensive plugs that focus on recovering and counterattacking. However, a plug can only be used so many times before it's drained, so while it's recharging, try replacing it with a different one and find your favourites.
Furuta:
I like using Iron Ball plugs in battle! If you equip the Surprise Iron Ball plug on its own, a single iron ball will drop, but if you combine it with a Kaboom Attack, iron balls will fall on multiple enemies. And if you equip two Surprise Iron Ball plugs, the iron balls themselves get bigger, and combining that with a Kaboom Attack will result in large iron balls falling on multiple enemies. It's really intuitive.
Ohashi:
In order to test out different combinations, we battled around the clock. (Laughs)
Fukushima:
We sure did. I honestly don't even know how many times I played through it. (Laughs)
Furuta:
But after playing it through, I experienced the power of plugs firsthand. I had a lot of fun as a player.
Otani:
Furuta-san, having played through the game, how was the difficulty level overall?
Furuta:
It got a bit tricky towards the second half of the game as the enemies' attacks ramped up. But once you learn how to use the plugs, you can launch powerful attacks against even strong enemies. It feels good when that happens and it's fun discovering how to use the plugs effectively. I'm not very good at strategy in games, but I enjoyed playing this as I felt like it was a simple and good system and not too difficult.
Because Shipshape Island is adrift, players visit each island at different times. This means the level at which players explore an island and the types of plugs they have at their disposal vary quite a bit, right?
Fukushima:
One time, Otani-san and I were battling the same boss, and while I was feeling the pressure, for him, it was a walk in the park. (Laughs) He'd explored every nook and cranny and had even gone back to collect items from islands he'd already connected. So, even though we were in the same part of the game, his level was quite a bit higher.
Whereas I'm the type of player who tends to progress through games quickly. So, when I went up against that boss, my level was only just about high enough...if that. (Laughs) But the enemies' levels don't scale, so we kept making adjustments until the very end to ensure the game would be challenging for a variety of players.
Ohashi:
There's also a system that comes to your aid when things get tough.
Fukushima:
That's right. Each enemy has a different attack pattern, so you may have a hard time fighting them until you figure it out. By increasing your level or improving your equipment and plugs, battles will get easier. Meanwhile, there's a feature where you can lower the difficulty if you reach the game over screen more than once in the same battle.
There's no particular penalty for using it, so I'd recommend taking advantage of it if you get stuck on an enemy.
Otani:
I want everyone to see the ending... It really moved me.
Furuta:
I hope everyone gets to see the story building up to its climax! I think people will be surprised…
I see. It sounds like you've fine-tuned the difficulty and balanced it to ensure players reach the ending you've poured so much effort into. Finally, could each of you say a few words to everyone who'll be playing this game?
Furuta:
Although there were times when we faced challenges and felt anxious, with a lot of support from my team members and Nintendo, we were able to bring this game to fruition. Staying true to the Mario & Luigi series, it’s an easy-to-play journey full of laughs. I’ll be happy if the story of Shipshape Island becomes a beloved journey for fans and newcomers alike because, as someone entrusted with the series, I’ll feel that I’ve been able to return the favour to everyone on the team and Nintendo.
Lots of fascinating characters and places await you. So I hope players enjoy this big, island-hopping adventure with Mario and Luigi!
Ohashi:
As it's the first completely new game in the series in nine years, I'm sure fans are looking forward to it. And I think it stays true to the Mario & Luigi series and will live up to their expectations. The shift to 3D has upgraded the presentation, and I believe the quality of the experience has also improved. So, I hope players get genuine enjoyment out of Mario and Luigi's new adventure.
Fukushima:
The development was full of new things, including our collaboration with Acquire and it being the first time a Mario & Luigi game was released for a home console. We were conscious of the idea of "breaking the conventions" of the series, which we've heard about in other titles, too. But more than that, reproducing and re-establishing those conventions in the first place presented many challenges and required a lot of ingenuity.
This title features a variety of original characters, each with their own unique and touching drama. I also recommend the side quests as a way to take a breather from the main adventure. I hope players enjoy the dynamic battles and moments of comedy in a story that features an expressive cast of characters, including Mario, Luigi, and more.
Last but not least, Otani-san.
Otani:
First of all, as this is the first new title in nine years, I'd like to thank Acquire, Nintendo's in-house and external teams as well as AlphaDream for enabling us to keep the series going. The appeal of this game, above all, lies in its gameplay of sailing on Shipshape Island to discover other islands. There are branching storylines, and while searching for something, you can revisit and re-explore islands you've already connected. In the process of doing so, new side quests are added, so players will experience the adventure in different orders and encounter different things.
Although RPGs are supposed to be a single-player experience, the game's story and directing are filled with drama, so it would make me happy if players enjoyed it bit by bit with their families, as if they were watching a 30-minute cartoon together. You need to set aside quite a bit of time to play an RPG. However, once you've completed one island you can take a break there, so I recommend playing at your own pace, for example, playing through just one storyline a day. I hope people will play to the end and enjoy the story of Mario and Luigi together with their families.
